Divina Armuela on Turning Content Into Paying Clients

Boa host0:00
We're joined by Davina Umwela. She's the founder of MD Media, a marketing agency that's helping founders turn content and personal brand into real business growth. So pretty impressive.

Divina Armuela0:11
Hi guys. Thank you so much for being here. This is so cool.

Boa host0:14
Awesome. Now in true style, we are going to start off with a little game. Um, it's called wrong or so wrong it's right. We've gone through the rules, so I'm going to jump in and hopefully everyone else gets the gist of it. Are you ready?

Divina Armuela0:26
So ready.

Boa host0:27
Okay. Starting a business because people kept asking you for advice.

Divina Armuela0:31
It's so wrong, it's so right. Mainly because that's literally how I started.

Boa host0:34
Love it.

Divina Armuela0:35
You gotta know, like, there's a, there's an actual ask for the thing that you're, you're wanting to do.

Boa host0:39
100%.

Audience member0:40
The gap.

Divina Armuela0:41
Exactly.

Boa host0:42
Uh, getting your first client, then building the offer.

Divina Armuela0:45
So wrong, it's so right. Unfortunately, sometimes you just gotta go into it and then figure out as you go, because that's honestly how you grow. You go through the lessons. That you learn along the way, basically.

Boa host0:56
Uh, saying yes to everything early then fixing it later.

Divina Armuela0:59
The same thing as before, so wrong and so right.

Boa host1:02
Uh, waiting until everything's perfect before posting.

Divina Armuela1:06
Just so wrong. Like, I think people need to just post mainly because you are learning and people are seeing you learn and they have more emotional investment as you're actually— they're seeing the growth as you do, you know.

Boa host1:18
So 100%. Uh, changing your niche after one quiet week.

Divina Armuela1:23
Uh, that's so wrong. That's just not how things go. Like, you need to be focusing and compounding and making sure that, yes, you're going broad at the start and then narrowing it down.

Boa host1:33
Awesome. Uh, working with a client you knew wasn't a fit.

Divina Armuela1:37
So wrong. Just so wrong. Don't ever do something for the money because it's literally going to be a headache later.

Boa host1:42
Even in the early days?

Divina Armuela1:43
Even in the early days.

Boa host1:44
Uh, using ChatGPT to write half your emails.

Divina Armuela1:48
Okay. You lose your personality if you keep using ChatGPT. Obviously, yes, you might be able to train it, but there's just that level of humanness that people still crave for. So don't offload everything to ChatGPT.

Boa host2:00
Great advice. Um, and finally, hiring someone before you figured out their job.

Divina Armuela2:05
Um, I say yes to that, honestly. So wrong and so right, mainly because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I didn't even know where they would fit into. Um, but as a founder, I think it's It's the best way to do things is to understand everything and then just put people in where, you know, they'll learn.

Boa host2:21
Totally. If they're hungry for it, they'll make it work.

Divina Armuela2:24
Curiosity is key though. So make sure you're hiring people who has curiosity.

Audience member2:29
Okay.

Boa host2:29
So can you walk us through the exact moment you shifted from being content creator to building a business?

Divina Armuela2:36
I think every founder goes through this, like a moment of metanoia. I think for me, the way I was, because obviously being an influencer back in, I think the era of like lip syncing, that's when I actually blew up. I was posting for the purpose of just going viral. And then I found myself in these rooms where I was, you know, attending events and I was doing a lot of clothing brands, I guess, collaboration stuff. And I found myself in a room and I was like, what am I even doing here? Like these, these, and you go through this thing where you start attending these places for the purpose of networking. And I looked around the room and I'm like, I don't even care to know any of these people. So, and then a moment after that I was in a car with all these girls who was high and drunk. And then I thought about, I was like, okay, I need to actually think about where my life is heading, right? So the way I was showing up was always determined to the, I guess, the audience that I was serving, but not the audience that I actually wanted. Um, and when I got to understand where, who I was as a person and where I was trying to go, I then figured out, okay, work backwards from here. And now that I know who I am, who do I actually fit for? Like, what is my purpose in life? Who am I actually supposed to serve? And then I started showing up as that person, cuz I do think that you do need to have an understanding of yourself before you can show up properly to the people that you're actually meant for. So when I got to understand myself, I started curating my life. And obviously it's not make— fake it till you make it. It's like knowing who you are and then start showing up for that version of the, of yourself that other people will align to, the people that you actually want in your life to align to. So when I started shifting into obviously business founder style, I need to make sure that, okay, if I was a founder wanting to work with me, what would I want to see for me to, to actually trust that this person can do the job? So I started showing up online as that individual. What are my values? Who am I actually, you know, what kind of working style do I, do I do? And you know, what culture am I trying to actually create? So all of those pieces kind of fall in line to who I am as a person, and then just literally putting it out there and letting people in, in the process of growth that I was having.

Boa host4:49
I love that. People love seeing the behind-the-scenes journey because it's relatable for them. They're probably in the exact same position or about to step out and do it.

Divina Armuela4:57
Exactly. People need to see that you can solve the problem that they're going through by speaking from a point of experience, of lived experience. Because if you're just yapping on about it but you're not actually showing them behind the scenes of what you are doing, you're— they're not going to be compelled to actually believe you, basically.

Boa host5:15
I love that. Okay, if you're auditing a founder's content and they weren't getting leads, what are the specific signals you'd look for that tell them that it's broken?

Divina Armuela5:24
The specific signals— and I do this every single time I have a meeting with a founder— is that like, okay, what are— if I was just a— if I was a founder that fell into your, I guess, Instagram, am I able to— am I going to see who you are, what you do, and who do you serve in the first 10 seconds, right? So this could be the highlight reel. Are there proof points on there, social proof points on there, that tells me that, okay, this person is capable and they've worked with other individuals who are in my sector or, you know, industry. And you're even your bio, what does that read? Is it like, what do you actually do and who do you serve? Is there a way to contact you? It needs to be so easily seen on how to actually work with you, whether that's a form or that's a, you know, straight to the DMs or email. Every CTA, every post needs to have a CTA. Like, how do I actually move on to the next level? You're giving me all this content, but there's not a way for you to communicate communicate that, okay, I can actually get in contact with her and I can actually reach this person. You can go viral for all sorts of things, right? But if you're not leading that audience into the next step, you're just leaking. Like, it's lost sales.

Boa host6:34
Yeah, you've actually touched on my next question because I think there's a huge difference between getting attention and followers on a post compared to like converting. So what are the most common positioning mistakes you see people, um, stop them from converting?

Divina Armuela6:47
The most common mistakes I would say is same thing. If you aren't, if there's not a clear statement that, you know, maybe your nan can literally understand in 2 seconds.

Boa host6:56
Lame in terms.

Divina Armuela6:57
Yes, correct. Like, who am I? It's, it's more so about like being able to say, okay, this is the person that I am and who am I serving and the outcome that I'm actually solving for other people. Those, like, you need to have compounding. It's the same messaging all throughout. You just need to find different angles to be able to say that same thing.

Boa host7:16
I love that. Yeah. Okay. So I think for product-based founders, um, you know, e-com and everything else, I do believe that content creation is a lot easier. So for our service-based founders, how can they clearly communicate what they do and who they help without overcomplicating it?

Divina Armuela7:32
Yeah. Uh, I actually work with a lot of service-based founders. I work with a few e-com, but service-based founders, I think, are actually easier for me, mainly because there is, you just need to showcase your process, right? Because you're solving a problem for people, but if you can't showcase that you can actually, you're actually capable of solving those problems in every single content pieces by being able to, you know, narrow down what your offer is, then you're not communicating your value. You're just saying me, me, me, me, me, but you're not speaking about the problem that you're solving for that person. Don't share too much of your, not that you shouldn't share your wins, but it's being able to speak on a problem and then find different angles to actually say that this is how I've solved it. So take one concept piece and then be able to break that down.

Boa host8:19
That's awesome. That's great advice. Mm-hmm. Okay, so beyond the content itself, what actually needs to be in place for someone to go from viewer to paying client?

Divina Armuela8:27
Yeah, so beyond content, content is honestly the thing that gets people in, but again, the foundations are so important. Before I take on any founder and say, let's start creating content, I think about all of the things that they actually need to have in place. For example, is there a landing page or a website? Is there a. Flow or DM flow that they can follow to be able to take them from, okay, this is the value and this is actually how you can use this value, but I'm the bridge to be able to make that thing come to life basically. So I would always say landing page, or if you have a CRM, or if you Google Sheets is fine, if you're not wanting to take on that many clients, um, making sure that there are those DM triggers on in place. So ManyChats is If you guys don't know ManyChats, please look into it. ManyChats is amazing because every single follower that you get, you can turn that into a whole loop of different things or different touchpoints for them to actually want to work with you. So for example, if I, if you were to follow me, you would receive this message. Thank you so much for following. What brought your curiosity or what made you actually follow me? And that conversation sparks and then they can pick on to say 3 different things that they're interested in, why they actually followed you by giving them, um, what is it called? Multiple choice questions, and then those multiple choice questions, whatever they pick, they'll get taken to a reel of that specific thing. And then again, you're giving them value, but then the value, they want to actually communicate more with you, right? Because you're, again, there's that law of reciprocation because people are seeing the thing and they're like, okay, how do I use this? And you're that bridge to be able to use that. So yeah, having all those workflows, um, is so important. So you're not actually just getting attention and it's not converting. Yeah.

Boa host10:07
I've heard of ManyChat on like Instagram. Like, is there something on LinkedIn? A lot of our founders, like, are you leveraging that as well? Does that also work on LinkedIn or is there another platform you can use?

Divina Armuela10:17
I haven't chosen, I mean, I haven't played around with LinkedIn too, too much. I do a lot of the ManyChats on Instagram and TikTok, but a lot of founders are on there anyway.

Audience member10:26
Yeah.

Divina Armuela10:27
Um, but LinkedIn, I'm pretty sure they have their own marketing ways to be able to do that. Awesome.

Boa host10:33
Okay, so what's one type of post that consistently drives inbound inquiries and why does it work?

Divina Armuela10:39
The one thing is getting clear on an offer, right? So for me, I've gotten clear on my offer and how I actually help founders. The one type of post is being able to say the, the problem that you are solving and then being able to do, what is it called, a, um, a raw moment on how you're actually doing that. So me, me and a founder going back and forth about something, and then I'm able to say in that one specific content transform how they shift— they shift basically the perspective and how they can actually do something, mainly because it's social proving. Like, they're seeing live how you're actually doing that, how you're solving what it is that they're actually stuck on. So I would always say, yeah, social proofing is really important.

Boa host11:23
I love that. The raw stuff's really cool. I think sometimes people still curate the raw stuff, um, between like business and personal brand. So what should founders be sharing about themselves that actually builds trust and shortens sale cycle.

Divina Armuela11:37
How you work, that is literally the main thing. The main driver in being able to compound trust is how you actually work. What is your process? Because your process is unique to you, right? And then you being able to talk about your process time and time again, and then who it is that the— this process is for, or what kind of problems that you're actually solving. You're able to still share, of course, things about yourself to be, to be able to say that you're still human, of course. But then Every single thing that needs to go out there is always talking about the same problem and who it's actually for, and then the process that you have built that's your IP that nobody else can copy. And then it's, it's, yeah, and giving that offer a name.

Boa host12:19
I love that. Okay, what's a simple content system that a busy founder can realistically, realistically stick to each week?

Divina Armuela12:26
I would say max 3 posts a week, 3 pillars. Who you are, your values, etc. Um, and then your offer, and then social proof. Always those three. If you're just going to choose three pillars, it would be those three.

Boa host12:40
And like, what's— what do you think is the difference between like a video and a stagnant post? Like, do you think there needs to be a variation? Or if someone's like not content, uh, confident to show up on a video, like, what advice would you have for them?

Divina Armuela12:51
I would say voice memo, because I do a lot of voice memos, and then I run that voice memo into a— like a transcript of that voice memo into like Claude or ChatGPT, and then find different ways to approach and find iterations on that thing. Because it's your raw thoughts, you're just finding ways on to actually, like, to create carousels. Carousels are actually really, really high performing to be able to break down a problem through the carousels. Um, and again, just voice memo, even if you can do just a raw post of your voice memo and how you've done something, or, um, a text version of your voice memo. Because honestly, Claude and all these things, it's still your thoughts, but they're— it's finding different ways to find iterations on just that specific subject matter.

Audience member13:38
Yeah.

Boa host13:38
And it also helps you block out that content. Like, I think the hardest thing sometimes is coming up with the ideas. Yeah. Your voice noting, it kind of splits it out.

Divina Armuela13:45
Correct. And it's on the run. Like, I, I personally, because I'm in meetings all the time, so I just put my phone down, I just start yapping on in the meetings, and then I cut that down into different ways, whether it's through carousels by, you know, taking the transcript from that meeting on what it is, what it is that I actually helped that, that founder with, and creating Reels or creating carousel video posts. So it's one single meeting, but you're able to take like 6 different pieces of content through that.

Boa host14:10
Yeah. And half the time you're not even thinking, you just kind of let it roll.

Divina Armuela14:13
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And those are the best moments because it's like, it's nothing. People can tell if it's too performative where it's like, it's so real. If it's, if you're just putting your phone down and you just literally start talking.

Audience member14:25
Yeah.

Boa host14:25
I love your cause that's something I see you consistently doing.

Divina Armuela14:29
Thank you.

Boa host14:29
Now guys, we are going to move on to Q&A shortly. So don't forget to put any questions in the chat. Um, how do you take one piece of content and turn it into multiple touchpoints that actually drive more opportunities?

Divina Armuela14:40
So same thing, I think from the previous question, um, it's being able to do a long form. If you can just sit down and get somebody to ask you all of the different— one thing, by the way, if you receive objections all the time, I would say Give me, give yourself a list of those objections and then be able to sit down, have somebody ask you what those objections are and have answers to those objections. And you can literally create so many different pieces of content just from that. Create LinkedIn posts, create carousel posts, create video posts. Like there's so many opportunities, but because the problem's already there, right? You're already receiving all of the objections, so you know exactly what to actually say. Because you, you deal with these in, in the course anyway.

Boa host15:24
That's actually fantastic advice. I will say, for BOA, like, we're always thinking about, like, community and feeling less lonely as a founder and growing your business, finding client partners. It's all, like, the positive side of it, but, like, the rejections that you get, the real pain points for founders or whatever your niche is, like, that's the real messaging, and that's where you should be really focusing your energy.

Divina Armuela15:44
Yeah, correct, correct. Like, you're already seeing everything. Like, every— you're, you're in the in the, I guess, the mess of it. So being able to have, just being able to take that, the problems that you're already, I guess, facing, and then turning them into content pieces is so smart because every single feeling is universal. Like, no one has a unique feeling. Everybody is feeling the same thing, but it's your unique perspective that's the magic.

Boa host16:08
It's great advice. Every single one, I'm like, yep. Um, okay, what's one thing someone can change in their content today that would immediately improve conversions?

Divina Armuela16:18
I would say, uh, to be honest, just start doing, just literally start doing. But the always calling out a specific person and always being able to have, I guess, the same messaging and compounding those things, but being able to add a CTA at the end, like lead those people somewhere. You cannot just start yapping on about things and then just expect them to figure it out on themselves, like by themselves. People are not like that. Like everyone needs to be led.

Boa host16:47
So, and like the thing with those like yapping posts as well, I get lost in them. Like if you don't capture someone in the first like couple of seconds, they're off.

Divina Armuela16:55
Correct.

Boa host16:55
And they're never going to look at your content again.

Divina Armuela16:57
Yes, exactly. I do think that hooking them is really, really important. So even if you've taken, for example, if you've taken a whole yapping moment, run that transcript to Claude and say, okay, give me the best moment in this transcript so that you can literally restructure the video. To put that at the front and allow people to be— to, to get them the already the juicy stuff and then pique their interest so they can watch the rest of it. I'm telling you right now, the transcripts are where the— is where the gold is. And then you can literally just, yeah, restructure your videos.

Boa host17:29
Yeah, I'm such a sucker for that as well. It's like clickbait. I'm like, oh, and then I end up watching the whole thing.

Audience member17:34
Exactly.

Boa host17:34
Um, okay, if you had to pick one area to focus on in the next 30 days to generate more inbound leads, where would you focus? And this is for both product-based businesses and service-based.

Audience member17:44
Yeah.

Divina Armuela17:45
The one area I would say really niche, like understanding a single offer, naming that offer and creating landing pages for it, a whole EDM situation for it. And then being able to speak about that thing in every single platform, at least literally every single day, if you can, but at least 3 times a week. And you will get tired of your own voice. You will. Like, but that's usually the time where people actually start hearing you, like just get clear on an offer, start talking about it and start, even if you can make fake scenarios, right? Like, oh, I once helped, I helped this founder and, you know, this is how, just not making it up obviously, but then be, being able to say, this is how I would do this if I was to help this founder with this offer. Like, so create scenarios so that they can see themselves in that thing.

Boa host18:34
I love that. You touched on landing pages for a moment. Like, when I think of a landing page, we normally put like all the offers on one page, but do you think that founders should be splitting that out, like different offers, different landing pages?

Divina Armuela18:45
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. Because if you think about it, if you're just dumping things into one page, I as a person, I've— okay, I've, I've seen a specific content, I want that same messaging in that one content in the landing page, because you need to have a unified messaging all throughout, otherwise you lose that, you know how you're scrolling and you're always just like, okay, I see this thing and then you following this loop. If you lose the loop, the trust is gone. You have to have the same thing.

Audience member19:13
Okay.

Divina Armuela19:13
You're talking about that single offer and then the page has that same messaging in that, in that landing page offer. And then again, following that loop into an EDM, if they, because obviously the first touchpoint you're not going to sell. So they need to keep following that same, I guess, flow. So EDMs. Keep following up with that, or again, compounding with the content because it's the same, same messaging. So yeah, I don't think you should have different things in one landing page because you'll lose the person.

Boa host19:42
Yeah, I love that. And also like the resources that attach to those landing pages.

Divina Armuela19:46
Yes, yes, yes, exactly.

Boa host19:47
Um, okay. And finally, if you're working one-on-one with each founder here, what's the biggest shift you'd push them to make to turn content into revenue?

Divina Armuela19:55
The biggest shift is Again, start targeting a person. Don't go too wide. I know people hate to be boxed in, but honestly, the money is the, the box. The money is where the box is in. Like, that's it. Like, you cannot talk to everyone. It's just not the way to go. Because honestly, when you're talking to a specific person, it's called a halo effect. Everybody else around that halo will automatically get what you're trying to say anyways. And everyone goes, even if the problem that you're solving sounds specific, people will try to do their best to just literally make that about themselves. So get specific on a person, on an avatar, get specific on the offer, and start talking about it in different ways.

Boa host20:42
I love that. Um, okay, Krish, did you want to ask your question and tell her what your business is as well? Yes, thank you, Tamina.

Audience member20:51
It's been really, really insightful so far.

Divina Armuela20:53
Oh, good.

Audience member20:54
So I am the founder of a product-based business. It's called Lunaire and it's a refillable candle. So I've got separate accounts for my business and personal, and I've been trying to build like a personal brand, share more of behind the scenes and just share more about my life. But now I've also started helping other founders. I'm trying to start like a new business, a service-based business. So my question for you is, do you think I should keep it all on my one personal Instagram account or separate it out given that it might be two different audiences and I don't want to spam like my friends and family with like business content.

Divina Armuela21:29
Yes, absolutely. I would always say keep it separate, mainly because if your personal life is so different to your business life, it becomes like a whiplash, right? So again, I love to find a founder and go through a doom scroll on their content because I'm like, okay, yeah, right? Because you're like, okay, what other what things can I learn from this person? So if, imagine you're saying something so valuable and the next post is like something so like crazy, like for example, a rave.

Boa host21:59
Yeah.

Divina Armuela22:00
And it's like, uh, because the way I think about personal branding, you're either adding or you're subtracting. So every single thing should keep adding to that, to that trust that you're trying to build in your audience's mind. So yeah, make, trying to do well, so many different things in one is just— you, you lose the person, right? Because I think for me, when I think about a person, I can only remember 3 things about them.

Boa host22:25
Same, right?

Divina Armuela22:26
It becomes too confusing. Yeah, correct. So yeah, I would say keep it separate.

Boa host22:31
Yeah. And there's so much content out there as well. Like, you really want to feed into like the founder and what they're about in that perspective without all of that training.

Divina Armuela22:39
Yes, correct. Exactly.

Boa host22:41
Um, okay, so I've got an anonymous data— want to ask, um, Sam, if you're running a boring, in my case, accounting business How do you approach making entertaining content, not just educational?

Divina Armuela22:52
Oh my gosh, I love accounting actually. Yeah, I do a lot of brokerage and accounting, like a lot of just service-based businesses. And accounting is not boring. Accounting can be fun. Like if you have your own specific take on a situation, or if you, if, okay, with accounting as well, if you're not a general accounting, you're going to be general for everyone, right? So, but if you want to target a specific like specific people, talk about what those people are actually worried about every time. Do you receive like calls at 9, like, you know, at 9 PM at night about a specific decision that they have to make on, on something? Let's start talking about those things. Like, I just received a call from one of the founders that I'm blah blah blah serving, and this is their, this is their worry. I want you to just literally talk about that on online and start saying what he's worried about is not Anything, and then just, yeah, just start breaking it down exactly the way you would speak to that founder. So yeah, I would say pick different ways. One, your personality, that's where the gold is. So literally show that out there and how you solve those problems. And then even if you can do trending stuff as well, cuz obviously we want to be discoverable, have a fresh take, have a, I guess an iteration to a trend. Obviously don't be too crazy because obviously you're an accountant, you want to taken a little bit seriously. But yeah, having those trending stuff that fits your industry is a great way to do it too.

Boa host24:17
Um, I want to go back to when you said you do like the long form, just pop a thing on and let it transcript for you. If you're like a product-based founder, I think for service-based, you're generally talking about like your expertise and a gap and everything else. Do you think you talk about the product and like say the ingredients or like the functionality of it in those long-form conversations, or what positioning would you do for that?

Divina Armuela24:38
For a product-based vendor, I would say not so much about the actual product. I would always talk about how you're solving, I guess, okay, how you landed on this product, because obviously you're not going to come up with a product and not have any problems in creating that thing. Talk about this.

Boa host24:56
I'll give you an example. So Krish, if you don't mind me using you, Krish, she owns this incredible candle business, um, like all organic and natural. Like, what kind of positioning would you do for something like that?

Divina Armuela25:07
For a candle-based business. So I would say, okay, because why— how did you land on the candles, right? Is it a specific smell that you're trying to emulate? Like, is it natural? Like, what is the actual parts of the product that you literally had to, I guess, explore to be able to land on this thing? Because I don't think that, yeah, every candle— because people can just buy candles from down the street, right? But your candle is different because The way you've sourced all the products, maybe you've gone the natural route. Like, what is the difficulty in getting to that thing? Like, people want to see and have the emotional investment in how much time you actually spent to land on this thing. Because again, people can literally just source products from everywhere, but it's your— let me give you an example right now. I'm working with a hair company, Nanoplastic. They make your hair straight, but she did not rest. She trialled like 40 different ways to do this thing, and I told her, I need you to literally document every single piece, every single trial that you had, and why you didn't settle. Like, why did you not settle? And you not settling enables the audience to see that, okay, she cares about her product. She's not just serving me something because it's like, you know, it's cheap and it's easily, I guess, sourced. There's a difficulty and a problem that she had to face. And the fact that she went into it and relentlessly tried to solve it makes me feel like I can value this thing because she's actually put in the time. Does that make sense?

Boa host26:41
Yeah. Sorry to throw you in the deep end there, Michelle. Yeah, she does a lot of amazing content anyway, so that was an easy one.

Divina Armuela26:49
There you go.

Boa host26:49
Yeah. Um, now guys, does anyone else have any questions? Awesome. Is there any other advice that you think would be valuable to share?

Divina Armuela27:01
Um, document every single thing. Literally document every single thing because to be honest, for me, I, I just documented everything. But looking back on all my growth so far, it has pushed me more to do more because it's like I can see my own growth and people along the way can see my growth too. So I receive calls.

Boa host27:24
I mean, I followed you for 6 months. And like, I can see the trajectory that—

Audience member27:27
thank you.

Divina Armuela27:28
Yeah, thank you. But people that you meet along the way and they're following you, they— it comes around literally full circle. People that followed me through from 2 years ago calls me today and says, I've seen your growth, I'm finally ready to take your service, and I'm finally, you know, I found a product, I've done XYZ, and I'm so excited to actually work with you because I've seen your growth, I've seen exactly how you work, and I trust trust you. They trust me because of how open I am online and how much of, I guess, the difference that I've made from not just for myself but for other founders that I've helped. So document literally everything, even if you just have it in like a storage and you haven't used it for anything. But even you just need to showcase a journey of yourself because no one— if you think about Dochi, I don't know if anybody knows Dochi here, but— oh, Dochi, yeah, yeah, right? She's done so much on YouTube. People think she blew up overnight, but it adds a of like, holy shit, this girl has just been at it. And like, I value how much growth she's had because she's been doing it for so long and she did not give up. And it makes people feel like, wow, like she has— she, she's actually incredible because her art form is incredible. Because I've seen her growth, I've seen her just consistently appear online.

Boa host28:45
So I love that. I am guilty of that and need to take your advice. Um, well, thanks so much for joining us this morning, guys. Um, and as you know, it will be on the video content library very soon. Um, but bye for now. Thank you.

Divina Armuela28:58
Thank you.