Beyond the Logo: 3 Founders on Building Brands That Last

Marie0:00
Good evening everyone, and welcome to Beyond the Logo: Building Brands That Last. As Kerstin introduced me, I'm Marie. I'm the founder and host of Lucky Last Podcast, a podcast that helps women build their dreams. And together with Kerstin and the BOA team, we wanted to bring powerhouse women to talk about what it really takes to build a brand. And today is a bit different. We are not going to look like a perfect Instagram reel, polished reel, or overnight success stories. Tonight is going to be about the real moments beyond the brands. We will talk about the messy beginnings. We will talk about the brave pivots. We will talk about the doubts. We will talk about the resilience and the mindset, but as well, the moments beyond the brands and the decision that truly, truly make a brand impactful. And to do so, we are joined today by 3 incredible women who built powerful brands across fitness, PR, and jewelry. So let me introduce you to Leah. Leah is in the middle. She's a founder of Kaya. Kaya is a fitness brand that's grown into a movement. Jessie, Jessie Marshall, is a founder of Hive HQ. She's a PR queen, and she's helping brands cut through the noise and build real visibility, and Talitha, the founder of The Cut Jewelry, disrupting the industry with modern and ethical luxury. Tonight, we will explore how they started, the challenges they faced, the strategy that helped them grow, and the mindset that kept them going. With that, let's dive in. Let's start with the beginning. Let's start at the beginning. I love the storeys of founders. I love to understand the why. Why did they start this business? So let me ask you, ladies, take us back to the moment before this was real. What was the spark that made you think, I'm doing this? Talitha?

Talitha2:21
I, I think it was a slow burn for me, more so than a spark. You know, I'd finished my 17-year career in television, not by my choice, and I thought I need to I need to do something. And my uncle, who'd been in the diamond industry, contacted me and said, I think you should start diamonds. And it was a really— over a year, a really slow burn where I was putting one foot in front of the other, doing some study, went to London to study. And then I, you know, sort of convinced myself that I should do it.

Marie2:53
So when he called you and said you should do that, did you— you didn't say no?

Talitha2:58
I said no.

Marie2:59
Oh, you did? Yes.

Talitha3:01
I said, how am I going to go from a journalist who is, you know, on the fence to selling, you know. Um, so that was a big hurdle for me to get over in my head. So throughout that year of study, I was not convinced at all that I was doing it, but I put one foot in front of the other and thought, I'll keep studying and I'll see what happens at the end of it.

Marie3:22
Thank you.

Lia Georgantis3:22
Leah? I agree with Talitha. I don't think there's a moment where you go, I'm, I'm doing this. I think there's a moment where you're in it and you go, oh my God, I'm doing this. It's a different inflection, and you It's, um, I mean, I've had two very different careers. So I was a DJ for 15 years. I ran a record label in London. I was like party queen, you know. I mean, I danced on every table, and thank God there was no social media. Yeah, I cannot just thank the gods.

Talitha3:56
Um, amen to that.

Marie3:58
Absolutely.

Lia Georgantis3:59
Um, and I didn't enter the fitness industry until I was 30. And it was basically because it was that or die.

Jessy4:10
Yeah, there's rent to pay. 100%.

Lia Georgantis4:13
You know, so I had this massive pivot and so, and it was, it was a slow burn and it was a very, it was a very interesting journey as well. And it's, it's funny because I was just saying to the girls, I was trying to think of this like one moment. But there is no one moment. It's a series of moments. And you— I think you have to— I'm talking about me personally. There are moments where you doubt whether or not you can continue, but then there's a pull to keep going. And it's hard to define what that is sometimes.

Marie4:50
It's—

Lia Georgantis4:50
and I think that is the reason to keep going. If it's so ingrained in you, this sort of desire to solve problems and do it, and you're doing it in an industry of something that you really are passionate about and love, then that's the reason. So, and, you know, I find myself here 20 years later, still very much in music, but, you know, I have this fitness career. So, yeah.

Marie5:22
Okay. Jesse.

Jessy5:26
Funny, similar in that my career pivoted and changed. I was a beauty therapist initially and then decided to pivot and go into PR, and I studied for 3 years and then thought, fuck, fuck this uni degree, try and do it myself.

Lia Georgantis5:42
How many times have we said fuck this?

Talitha5:43
Yeah.

Jessy5:46
Uh, and it wasn't until the other day, my husband— I was having a really stressful morning, which seems— my Oura Ring tells me all the time that I'm quite stressed, so it's just, you know, I thought I got it to say you won't be stressed.

Talitha5:56
And now it's just—

Lia Georgantis5:57
you're looking at someone in the fitness industry that does not wear any of that stuff.

Jessy6:00
Okay, so you know, I got it to say you're not stressed and it's actually proving the opposite. So I was having a morning the other day and my husband said, why are you doing this to yourself? Why every day? And that question, I burst into tears. I was like, how dare you consider that my business isn't important? And he was like, well, you're so damn stressed all the time, like why do you keep doing it? And I was like, because I actually love it.

Lia Georgantis6:20
Yeah.

Jessy6:21
So to your point, it's like there is this like pull-push, and then when questioned, well, would you get rid of it? The answer is no.

Lia Georgantis6:28
100% no.

Marie6:29
You're like, this adrenaline, yeah, it's yours at least, you know, on your own terms. Leah, before Kaya was a movement, it was just an idea. What were those early, messy, unglamorous days like?

Lia Georgantis6:44
My God, I wish I could go back to them.

Marie6:46
Oh.

Lia Georgantis6:48
Why that? It's a bliss of ignorance sometimes. Let me be very clear, if anybody's under any illusion, there is a huge difference between an idea and a viable business model. Yeah, they are poles and oceans apart. And sometimes I long for those days where it was just this whimsical idea and I was a party of one and I didn't have to be responsible for any one salary, or like, I was just—

Jessy7:21
and it was—

Lia Georgantis7:22
and you felt like bulletproof, and everything that you did was, um, gonna be the best thing ever. I mean, there's the amount of times I was like, this is it, this is the thing. I've done that 50 times. It's just so many things are the thing. Um, but obviously, you know, I think for me, Kaya in its, in its essence is a, is a movement that really does change women's lives, and that is my driver. So that pushes me to turn it into a viable business model. I think founder and CEO are two very different jobs. They're different jobs. You're the founder, is the visionary, it's the innovator, it's the person that comes up with that, you know, that, that secret sauce. The CEO is the person that then takes that and executes it into something that is can be real. And I've had to learn the hard way that I'm not a CEO. I am now, but I was not a natural CEO. And, um, so the learning for me to try and get it into a business, um, has been, has been wonderful. It's been stressful, it's been fucking expensive, it's been all of these things. And, um, but yeah, I think anyone that sort of goes, I've got an idea, therefore I have business is a little bit naive in that. So yeah.

Marie8:52
And we will definitely talk about the strategies as well to move from the idea to the business. Yes, absolutely. Talitha, you walked away from national TV. What did that decision cost you and what did it free you to become?

Lia Georgantis9:07
Hmm.

Talitha9:09
I think I walked away from an identity that I'd had, you know, since I left school. I was, you know, Talitha the journalist. I was on TV. Identified, you know, when you're a journalist, you work really long hours, you cover some amazing things. You know, you get a call in the afternoon, pack your bags, we're going on a jet. There's been an earthquake in Christchurch and you're, you know, there within a few hours. And it became everything about who I was, you know. So I was walking away from that and it was a really hard decision. I was nervous because it was all I knew and I knew that I could make money. You know, doing that thing. So it was also a really nerve-wracking thing to do. And I knew that going into the diamond industry, it was a very crowded market and there were no guarantees. And, um, but as I said before, I put one foot in front of the other, did the study, and then, you know, step by step I started creating a business.

Marie10:10
Did it free you from your old identity to build a new one? Maybe more aligned?

Talitha10:17
I think so. I would say it's— I'm definitely who I am now. I feel like being a journalist was fitting a square peg into a round hole in that I didn't love it, but I ended up in it. The money was good.

Lia Georgantis10:31
You obviously were good at it.

Talitha10:33
Well, yeah, you know, I was moderately successful in the industry, I think. But we had our clothes paid for, our hair paid for. You get to work and your hair and makeup was done.

Marie10:45
So it was—

Talitha10:46
there was a lot that came with the job. Job and, you know, walking away from that, people were just sort of like, what, what are you, what are you doing? Um, but I just had no passion. I like, I would go to work every day and just read an autocue, you know, and I'd lost that spark for many years. So I knew that I still had more in me, and I was, you know, late 30s, and I thought I need to do it now. Yeah, because I don't want to spend the rest of my life doing something that does not set me on fire. 100%, totally.

Marie11:23
I think it's so important to be passionate about what we are doing.

Talitha11:26
Yes, yeah, and I'd never had passion. Now I'm ignited.

Marie11:30
Yeah, so you did a good thing. I did a good thing. Yeah. Jessi, PR is crowded as well. It's a very busy industry. What made you confident you could build an agency that truly stand out?

Jessy11:46
When, if I go back to the early days of my PR career, I noticed that there was this, I guess, pull-push from client to agency when we would have discussions as a junior on the account. I was like, why is it that these clients that we were working for were getting so upset? And I recognised that there was not enough transparency when you pay an agency. It's not black and white. It's not the same as putting money into, say, Meta. You don't know what you're going to get back, whereas with Meta you can at least be like, oh, okay, if I put in $10, this might be the ROAS on that. With PR, it's not like that because you're brokering someone's black book. So on these calls or in these whips, I was like, why are these clients getting so upset? And I could see that the senior may not have been giving them full transparency. And it was irritating because as a person, I'm very black and white and very honest. I just I say it how it is, which can get me in trouble sometimes, but I'm just really honest. So as I started going further into my career, I kept noticing this upset and thinking like, why is it that the agency just, just isn't honest? Um, so I decided to go out and freelance. And when you're freelancing, you have to be honest because you don't necessarily have this like agency that can show all of this hype because you're one person. So that transparency started, and then we started getting busier. Well, I started getting busy and I realised I needed a team. So this freelance role kind of flooded into an agency, not by mistake, of course, I always wanted a team, but it wasn't the initial vision. So whenever we take on a client, and the reason I suppose Hive has had the success is because we don't just take on clients for the sake of it. We take on clients because we live and breathe it. We believe that we can get to them. The coverage, and I won't take on a client that we don't have the black book for. And I offer that on that initial call, that transparency. And say we get 6 months into the relationship with the client and we're not getting a win, we call it. And our whole ethos or our whole culture is just be black and white. Don't try and like mull it over. Don't try and say, oh, it's coming. It's not. Tell them why, find a pivot, or let it go. So I think that might be one. Maybe it's just because we're so honest.

Marie14:10
Yes.

Jessy14:11
But that was just a philosophy that I recognised from the very beginning and why I think sometimes PR gets a really bad rap because so many people are like, yeah, well, they took our money and they achieved nothing. And it really comes down to having that transparency when you're paying an agency to get that. But yeah, finding the right partner.

Lia Georgantis14:31
The nature of PR is spin.

Jessy14:33
Yeah.

Lia Georgantis14:33
So you probably know it's not. And I think people expect hit that maybe. So you would have been this refreshing, like, breath of fresh air.

Jessy14:44
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So we just don't take on clients a lot of the time. We're actually saying no, or I'm pointing them elsewhere because people want to work with us because of recommendation. But I'm like, if I don't have— like, a luggage brand recently came to us and I was like, I don't have the journalist contact for that, so you're not— it's not going to benefit. No matter if we can blow a beauty brand up, that's because of our contacts, not necessarily because of anything else.

Marie15:10
Yeah.

Jessy15:10
So yeah, honest.

Talitha15:11
Fascinating. Really important.

Marie15:13
As you said, this is not something that in this industry is always done. I can imagine how refreshing your approach has been for your customer. Yeah, for sure. So starting is one thing, we said it, growing a business is another, way more complicated. So let's talk about the strategies that turn an idea into a real business. What was your very first growth strategy? That actually worked?

Lia Georgantis15:42
Jessie.

Jessy15:44
Okay, this is so rogue, but I haven't actually had a growth strategy.

Marie15:51
I love this.

Jessy15:52
Because I didn't think I was going to have an agency, and I do. Oh, and I was trying to brainstorm this with my team because I was like, this is not any business advice. Um, My philosophy or motto is throw mud at the wall and see what sticks. So that also can create a lot of turmoil, a lot of chaos, because—

Lia Georgantis16:20
and a lot of mud everywhere.

Jessy16:22
Yes, lots to clean up.

Marie16:24
Messy.

Jessy16:24
It's messy. Um, but I'm a— I thrive in chaos, so in most cases I will say yes If something lands on my desk, I'm like, yes, let's do it and just figure it out. And I just pile my cup full. Now that is not sustainable. You know, I've had 2 babies in the last 3 years and I haven't had mat leave, so it's not sustainable. You can only do that with a lot of support. So I'm not trying my best to speak in that way because I'm just like, just run at it if it feels right.

Lia Georgantis17:00
Honesty.

Talitha17:01
Yeah.

Marie17:01
Yeah.

Lia Georgantis17:02
I should have started a study.

Jessy17:04
I should not answer that question. But I think it's for growth. My thing is, if it feels right, go for it and then throw everything at it to make it work. But is that a 6-month, 12-month plan? Like, don't ask me on that because I definitely could not give that advice.

Marie17:21
Okay, Leah, save me.

Lia Georgantis17:24
Um, well, I've actually got two different takes on this because I, in my, in my experience with the growth of Kaya, I had two different growth pathways and the first one grew my audience, but I made exactly no money from it. Okay. The second one grew my business, which is now being monetized. So my first growth strategy was, um, actually by accident. I'd had a little studio in Bondi and it was going really well, whatever. It was just me. I'd hired a sort of thing, a space, and then we went into lockdown. And I don't know if any of you are familiar with Kaya, but, um, idiot me, who was so naive, said to my community, oh look, don't worry, I'll just do an online class for you every morning, for every morning of the lockdown, thinking it was going to go for like 2 weeks.

Talitha18:15
Oh God.

Lia Georgantis18:16
Oh dear.

Marie18:17
Yeah.

Lia Georgantis18:18
78 days later, I'm still showing up every single day on Zoom. And by August, I was getting 700 people a day. Into my Zoom classes, but I was charging no money.

Marie18:34
I was going to ask you, it was a free class, right?

Lia Georgantis18:37
So while I had thousands of people around the world doing my workout online every day, I was making exactly fuck all. And the worst part was when I went to monetize it because I'd set a benchmark.

Talitha18:54
Yeah.

Lia Georgantis18:55
That something for nothing has no value. They wouldn't pay for it. And so I had created this movement, but I couldn't make any money from it. Wow. So that's growth strategy number one. We'll just put that in the bin. All right.

Talitha19:12
Wow.

Lia Georgantis19:13
What I did do though, as I was doing all of my free classes was I was recording all of them. So I did end up turning it into a monetized online platform that I was able to use afterwards so that the content that I got from that was, you know, amazing. And it's my IP, and it's all of everything is very valuable. But I think the best growth strategy for me was actually understanding my value, setting a benchmark. We don't discount, we don't do Black Friday, we never do any of that sort of stuff. I have a worth. And I think once people start to understand that they pay— you get what you pay for— that is your growth strategy. And if you can deliver on the product, the promise and the product, through the user journey. That growth strategy might not be immediate, it might not be stratospheric, it might not be like that, but it will be like that. And that's what you want. It's sustainable, it is repeatable, and it's reliable. And it's only now, literally, we're in the beginning of year 2. I feel like I've been doing this for 59 years. And it's only now starting to really find its rhythm.

Jessy20:23
I followed your journey and that shocks me because I don't see it like that, obviously not on you, but I'm very proud of you.

Talitha20:31
Okay.

Jessy20:32
Because like I've admired you from the sidelines.

Lia Georgantis20:35
Thank you.

Jessy20:35
Um, I think I came into contact with you, I came to an event.

Marie20:40
Yes.

Jessy20:41
Uh, yeah, but then lockdown.

Lia Georgantis20:43
And so I also would like to just touch on, and thank you for bringing that up because building a brand is also different to building a a business and purposefully people now look at me like, oh my God, you're killing it.

Jessy20:58
And I'm like, oh, I'm so broke.

Lia Georgantis21:02
But on the outside, I put all my money back into it.

Marie21:07
Yes.

Jessy21:07
I was like, give me a refund because you're making so much money.

Marie21:10
I'm like, no, I'm actually not.

Jessy21:12
Yeah, because it goes all back into—

Lia Georgantis21:15
Exactly.

Jessy21:15
Yes.

Lia Georgantis21:16
So brand is also different to product and, you know, so there's lots of different moving parts. In my experience, it takes you gotta have balls. And I hate to say that because it should be—

Marie21:29
that's okay.

Lia Georgantis21:30
You know, we do.

Talitha21:31
Yeah, we do.

Lia Georgantis21:32
Yeah, you're gonna have a good set of knockers to like get into this.

Talitha21:37
Thank you.

Lia Georgantis21:38
Thank you, Anita.

Marie21:41
What about you?

Talitha21:41
Um, I think I'm like Jessie. I, I don't like bullshit and I value transparency. And essentially I walked into this archaic industry that was full of tradition, full of silence, full of, you know, smoke and mirrors. And I was introducing a new product and disrupting it essentially. And so it required a lot of education. And I was so surprised. And even being a journalist as well, I was so surprised that people, jewelers, were still saying that diamonds are rare. You know, most people in the Western world have one on their hands, you know, that they're not rare. So yeah, so things like that, I really, really struck me and I thought, well, I'm just going to tell the truth. And so I started doing these 30-second videos from my bedroom, filming myself, you know, 1,000 takes, editing them. And then they sort of took off a little bit. But then a journal— another journalist said, why don't I come and help you? I'll ask you the questions, I'll film you. And that just really worked because someone asking me a question, I was talking to camera and then we put them up and I said, let's just put a title. Like all of the jewellery pages have got these pretty like moodboard-y looking Instagrams. I said, we need a big fat title, you know, Diamonds Are Not an Investment, you know, like, you know, fact, factual kind of things on the front. And they took off. And we've released one a night every night for the last— it's coming up to 2 years now. We've missed out Saturday nights, but now we've found that Saturday nights actually get a lot of hits.

Jessy23:28
So now it's after, after 1:00.

Talitha23:32
Yeah, I don't drink anymore, but that's a whole other story.

Jessy23:37
Yes.

Talitha23:37
So, so yeah. So and look, some go amazingly 3 million hits. Some will get 20,000, but it's just about consistency and doing it every single night and turning up and doing the real, you know, I've turned up when I felt disgusting, sick, awful, you know, but I record them and I release them. And that has been the biggest driver. So that drives all of our traffic to the website. It's all of our leads. People book appointments through that. And we only started Meta advertising about 6 months ago. Yeah. So it's been very effective. Yeah.

Jessy24:20
Okay.

Marie24:21
And what pivot changed the trajectory of your business the most?

Talitha24:26
What pivot? That, that, yeah, that was definitely— that has changed everything to the point now that we need to— we're looking at existing in the real world. So doing more face-to-face events. Things like that, because we've got this big following online. We have a big clientele in the US. We sold 2 rings from Switzerland this week. So we've really developed a following. But we also need to start marketing, you know, in the real world, so to speak.

Marie24:58
Okay. Leah, pivot. What's it?

Lia Georgantis25:02
Pivot for me was definitely narrowing my market. So realising I can't be— I don't want to be everything to everyone. When I drew a line in the sand and said, we're women only and we are women only over 40, then the floodgates opened. I think just be very specific around who you are talking to and they will, they will come. So that was the biggest thing that changed the trajectory of the, of my business.

Jessy25:32
Just see, just on that, a lot of the brands that we work with, when they get really specific with their demo, that's when they actually see the takeoff. So agree there. Mine is a little bit different. Mine was actually hiring staff, which is a whole other kettle of fish. Yeah. But hiring had, has actually provided me more, I guess, freedom or choice within the business as to like what I sit on. And I then can do what I actually like to do, which is the strategy.

Lia Georgantis26:07
You work on the business, not in the business.

Jessy26:09
Yeah. Um, so I get to like like my favourite thing to do is like jumping— the team hate it— jumping in on a WIP and coming up with the ideas with the ADHD mind that I have and spinning the whole thing into chaos and then being like, cool, guys. Yeah, um, but that's where I have the most fun. So hiring for me was my biggest pivot because when it was just me, just by myself, I wasn't able to do that and I wasn't able to then, um, bring on the scale of clients that needed or wanted, um, or to have the most fun with. So for me, it was actually hiring that was my biggest pivot.

Marie26:44
It makes sense. Now that I got you, help the girls here. What's one PR strategy that brands constantly get wrong?

Jessy26:53
Oh, get wrong.

Marie26:54
Make sure that we don't—

Lia Georgantis26:54
I can't wait for Honest Jessie to spill the tea here.

Jessy27:00
Yeah, I think, and it goes back to why I started my business, um, honesty. If there is a crisis, there is, um, be honest, um, jump on it. Don't try and like wash it under the water and think, um, you know, this is just going to go away. It's not. It's going to keep rearing its head. Um, Talitha will be able to explain this too. Yeah. Um, when often people will be like, it's a new cycle, it'll go away in 24 hours.

Marie27:30
Sure.

Jessy27:30
It probably is going to come back again, particularly if you don't, um, just say it. So I've got two examples. The breakout hack. So TBH Skincare a few years ago went viral after doing a TikTok. It was called Gen Z Boss in a Mini. I'm not sure if anybody saw it. Yes, it went into the manosphere and Andrew Tate, I don't know, ended up commenting on it.

Talitha27:57
Really?

Jessy27:57
Yes, it went really badly.

Talitha28:00
Where did it go from?

Jessy28:01
Like a fun dancing TikTok to death threats. They had to get security at the office the next day. Yeah, it was a really intense time. So intense that it was no longer our demographic that we were speaking to. It was not Gen Z. They were not females. They did not have breakouts anymore. It was very far the other way. So whilst not our demographic, we did definitely have to address it and address it in a way where the founder, Rach, had to speak and basically say, I don't understand how it's gotten, gotten to here. It was just a funny TikTok. Everybody kind of let it go. And then we have obviously leveraged it beyond that in a really positive way where at the time we started a bundle that was called Gen Z Boss in a Mini. We've got to come up with it.

Talitha28:55
Absolutely.

Jessy28:56
So she addressed the audience and said, for those that are new here, we now have a bundle called Gen Z Lost in Winnie. So if you actually want to know about us, this is our bundle.

Marie29:05
So good.

Jessy29:06
Um, and since then we've done a multitude of things off the back of that, but we could only do that if we addressed it.

Lia Georgantis29:11
Mm-hmm. Of course.

Jessy29:12
Because otherwise it was just going to keep coming. And initially we did try to sit quiet on it, but it just kept getting bigger. And I think TikTok is a whole other thing. It does get bigger and bigger and bigger. So I would say jump on it, address it, and be really honest, because a journalist will pick it apart if it's not honest, and I'll be able to tell.

Talitha29:32
Um, absolutely. That's a great advice. Yes, very good advice.

Marie29:37
Talitha, you are disrupting a traditional, very traditional industry. You say it yourself, with lab-grown diamonds. What resistance resistance did you face?

Talitha29:48
Um, it was a two-pronged resistance from clients, you know, people, and also from other jewellers who didn't want to sell them. So we sell both. I educate people and, um, you know, empower people to make their own decisions. And I've always sat sort of on the fence about them. I don't say you have to buy this or you have to buy that, um, but the— some of older people in the natural diamond industry came at me quite fiercely and from, you know, all over the world. And I'd wake up sometimes and look at all the messages and just think, oh my gosh, what am I actually doing here? You know, faced a lot of criticism, a lot of resistance, but I continued on because I believed in what I was doing.

Jessy30:38
Yeah.

Talitha30:38
Why? Yeah, I believed it. Yeah, I truly did. But there were a lot of sleepless nights along the way, for sure.

Marie30:47
Lea, the fitness industry is crowded and very noisy. Everyone is selling results, and we talked about this. What was the smartest brand-building decision you made that helped Kaya stand out? Is this when you decided to say, okay, this is for women?

Lia Georgantis31:03
Yes.

Marie31:03
40 plus?

Jessy31:04
Yes.

Marie31:04
Yes.

Lia Georgantis31:06
Look, I think that people, if I'm going to be really honest, and I'm going to be really honest because now I can't not be, people would look at me, I'm 50 this year, and say, what do you do? How do we get that? Put you in the box. It is a lot of hard work, but there's also the components. And so if I was really honest, obviously tikaya, the workout in its, you know, in isolation wasn't enough. So, um, I had to, I guess, be comfortable using myself as the aspiration educator. So there's aspiration, there's inspiration, but there's also, you know, there's science-backed stuff that works. It's protocols, it's XYZ, um, and, and go, okay, I can train a 20-year-old dude, but I'm better served training me.

Jessy32:14
Yes.

Lia Georgantis32:15
I want people to come into the studio and for one second go, oh my God, maybe I can do that, do that. Maybe I can be the best version of myself. Maybe I can, you know. And, and I really have worked very hard at creating a space for women where they for once are main character in the story. And I want to go back to Talitha's point about identity, because we do, we suffer with identity crisis so much in our lives, especially when we hit, you know, we've had our kids, we're post-40, maybe we've had a bit of a career break, we're embarking on something else. We have all these labels. We're mother, we're daughter, we're sister, we're colleague, we're friend, we're this, that, and the other. But like us as just a woman sometimes gets buried underneath all of that, like our essence. And so I guess my mission was to try and help people and women reconnect to that version of themselves. And if they can look at me and go, that's possible, then that is what— that's my lot. So it was, it was to answer your question, becoming very focused on this one demographic, which is me. We're very underserved in my industry. It's like bro town and Gen Z in this gym, you know. So there was no space unless you go to like Fernwood or Curves or something, which, you know, I did PR for them.

Talitha33:50
Did you? That was where I learned.

Jessy33:55
I'm like, if you can sell a storey on Curves, baby, you can do anything. That's what I tell my Gen Zs about that.

Talitha34:04
Good guys. Yeah.

Marie34:05
Absolutely. So I would like to briefly talk about the community. I do believe that community is very important. In my podcast, when I interview founders, they always, always come back to the community. So I would like to ask you, how has the community helped you grow, Talitha?

Talitha34:25
Oh, we've had some incredible supporters and people who, you know, say, I've watched your reels every single night and I haven't missed, and they show support on the pages. They buy things from us. They spread word of mouth. A lot of people share our stories. So that's been a huge part in, in us growing. And I love connecting with them as well and hearing what they want us to talk about, what they need from us.

Marie34:53
So I was going to ask you, how do you interact with them? Yes.

Talitha34:56
Well, I still post every reel and I still post every post. I don't schedule anything because I feel that I don't like it to be too contrived. I just like to— yeah, I know.

Jessy35:10
What time are we going live tonight?

Talitha35:12
I, I've just missed posting, so.

Jessy35:15
No, so I have to do it straight after this.

Talitha35:19
I better start. It's insanity. And every, you know, my business coach and everyone is just saying, what are you doing? But I just have to do it.

Jessy35:28
I'm the biggest generator of links.

Lia Georgantis35:29
I honestly, you've inspired me.

Talitha35:31
Really?

Lia Georgantis35:32
Yeah, really. No, just posting. I was so good at it and then I just fell off. I got, I don't know, became allergic to social media. Yeah, it's a tough thing.

Marie35:45
It's a hard thing, social media. Thank you, thank you. We briefly talked about community. I would like to move on to make sure we stay on time. I would like to talk about mindset. This is something that we don't talk about. That's something that is not visible, but how do you manage self-doubt? Jessie.

Lia Georgantis36:04
Oh my God, you guys, I'm so—

Jessy36:06
no, no, no, you've done well. No, I don't know, you told me. Um, self-doubt, whoa, it comes knocking. Um, yeah, I have a lot of self-doubt in a multitude of ways, and I think most founders do, but we obviously have this this, uh, I guess this hustle, this drive to pull us out of it. For me, uh, though, and maybe this is something because of my husband and what he kind of does as a job, he's a, um, I don't even know really how to explain what he does. He's a corporate coach that helps with mindset. So for me, yeah, yeah, it's good, it's bad.

Lia Georgantis36:47
Um, on our morning thoughts.

Jessy36:51
How would see us in our morning? What's probably having arguments because I'm constantly talking about work. But on these walks or in these moments, I download as if he's like my counsellor or psychologist, um, and get really clear tactics of like what my next pivot point is. I also journal every single night before bed, um, because I think there is a lot when you are a business owner that throughout the day It's just a lot of information. And when you have staff, you're also taking on board their feelings, their emotions, the vibe in the office. Like, I get home and I'm like, then got to transition into mom mode. So journaling for me has been my biggest outlet to get clarity, or like, was it real? Was it not? Does it matter? Does it not? So I journal most nights.

Marie37:38
Thank you.

Jessy37:39
Um, to help with that mindset.

Marie37:42
That's really good. Leah, Briefly.

Lia Georgantis37:44
Yes, sorry, I teach mindset. Mindset is a part of our training, and I give keynotes on mindset as a concept. It's really interesting, the pathway, because for me, everything needs a lot— it needs to be logical. There needs to be a logical step from A to B, otherwise I can't move forwards. And understanding the evolution of mindset for me was such a, was such a like an aha moment. And so if you look at the anatomy of, of our mindset, because obviously our mindset is the lens that we view the world through, right? It's how we see, it's how we view things. And but where does it come from? Like, what creates our mindset? Where do we— how do we get from— what are the thoughts that— where do they come from? You know, and, and so if you look at mindset. It is, it's like a ladder that goes, um, to reality is mindset, then it goes our emotions, then it goes our thoughts, then it goes our language, then it goes our decisions, and then it goes our reality. But what governs our mindset? So what makes you— what is the thing that will get you up in the morning to either have a positive outlook or a negative outlook? It's your health. It is the state of your health. If you have gone out and smashed yourself and you wake up hungover feeling like dog shit, your view of the world is going to be pretty low. If you look after your health, you've gone for a run, you're eating well, you're making good choices, you're doing this and the other, your view of the world is going to be better. And it's as simple as that. And so when I kind of realised that actually what governs our mindset is our health, and I'm not talking just physical health, it's our mental health, it's our our emotional health, it's our spiritual health, it's all of that. That was like, great, that's the cause. Everything else is the symptom. I'm going to focus on that. If I focus on that, everything else will start to, um, you know, sort of fall into place. And there was an amazing technique that I learned as a Kundalini yoga teacher that trained a part of the brain called the anterior midcingulate cortex. I don't know, you may have heard it on the— David Goggins talks about it. It's the part of the brain that governs confidence, determination, grit, self-worth, all of that stuff that you can't get from the outside. Nobody else can give that to you. And it only gets activated when you do something that you don't want to do, which is why I put the arm hold in Kai. I don't know if anybody's done the class, but it's that moment of sitting in that piece of discomfort where you're broke, your mind is starting to question everything. And as founders, that happens every day. To us. You sit in it and you start to doubt yourself and you start to question it. But then I go, my God, I'm training that part of my brain. It's really great if I stay in it. So it turns into a positive. Um, but mindset is everything. Comes down to mindset. It is really the cornerstone of, you know, whether or not you will succeed in what it is that you want to do, having that outlook in life.

Marie40:56
Thank you, Lea. Okay, I'm going to do a very quick fire chat question. You just respond One word?

Lia Georgantis41:04
One word!

Marie41:05
Okay, got it. Talitha, one thing every founder should stop doing immediately?

Talitha41:11
Um, they should start getting a therapist.

Jessy41:14
Love that.

Marie41:15
Jessie, your non-negotiable habit as a leader?

Jessy41:21
One word or two words—

Talitha41:24
you can pick up sentence. Very good guy.

Marie41:30
Leah, one thing they should double down on this year?

Lia Georgantis41:35
Authenticity.

Talitha41:35
Yes, amen.

Lia Georgantis41:37
Authentic.

Marie41:39
If every entrepreneur and business owner implemented just one thing this year to succeed, what should it be?

Jessy41:49
Me?

Talitha41:50
Yes, sorry. Look, I think entrepreneurship is the biggest personal growth journey you'll ever go on, and your every trigger, every fear, every inadequacy will be be beep, beep, beep, beep, pushed on. And if you don't have an outlet for that and you don't have a space for personal growth, i.e., a therapist, which I have every month, um, I love it, um, then you're not going to grow and the business won't grow. You'll get stuck.

Marie42:18
It's pretty true. I think you need to heal your whole—

Talitha42:21
definitely, yes—

Marie42:22
issues to be a good founder. Yes, agree.

Jessy42:25
Jesse, Mine's very different and it actually goes against what— well, you do it, you don't do it. If you could do one thing today to help your business grow, I would say start documenting and uploading on social media.

Lia Georgantis42:42
I do do it sometimes and I should do it more. And it's— I'm going to start. That's—

Jessy42:48
I've said that today in the room.

Lia Georgantis42:49
I'll be watching. Starting. I'll be watching. Ridiculous. But no, I agree. I am 100% agree.

Jessy42:55
Platform. Yes, you can grow astronomically, uh, from it, and you can grow a community, which I think is vital. Like we spoke about how big a community is, whether it's word of mouth, whether it's, you know, a micro-influencer, macro-influencer. It could be the next founder in the other room that becomes your best friend to help you through. So I would say start posting, start connecting on social, and start documenting. And the more that you do it, these platforms, particularly TikTok at the moment, you can still grow. It's not too late. So I would definitely say that That would be my one piece of advice. If you're sitting there going, oh, I know I need to do this, just start. Stop thinking about it. Stop trying to make it perfect.

Lia Georgantis43:34
The scrappier the better. My answer to this question is going to blow your minds because it's going to be completely off the Richter of what you would think I would say. But I did think long and hard about this, and I agree with you, and I agree with you, and I think yes to both of those things. But I also think if I was going to start, if it was today, like we're talking about today, Do not be lazy with AI. Learn it. Learn how to use it and implement it in your business. It can be so amazing, but 99% of people and business owners out there are lazy with it and they don't use it properly. They use it as a creative tool. It's not creative.

Marie44:11
It's strategy.

Lia Georgantis44:12
It's not strategy.

Marie44:13
It's systems. It's processes. It's structure.

Lia Georgantis44:16
It's framework. It can take a lot off your plate. And it's fucking brilliant as a tool. And if you're not using it in your business, you are going to be left behind.

Jessy44:27
Yeah, you need to try it.

Lia Georgantis44:28
You need to try and probably— and so what further to that point, if you don't know how, go and learn it, upskill, go and do some things that push you out of your comfort zone.

Jessy44:36
I went and did a financial accounting course.

Lia Georgantis44:42
I did.

Talitha44:44
I did.

Lia Georgantis44:45
I'm just the worst. Go and do the things that you don't want to do.

Marie44:52
Okay, now we are going to open the floor to some question if you have any question. Yes, thank you. Is there a mic around or no mic?

Lia Georgantis44:59
No.

Jessy45:00
No?

Talitha45:00
Okay, that's okay.

Marie45:01
Um, can you tell us some of the AI features that you've used or apps?

Lia Georgantis45:07
Yes, so, um, a lot of the AI I've used, I've trained my own algorithms to sit inside our large language model. So, um, So the way that ChatGPT works is it takes, it learns over just general datasets and you don't know where they come from. They could be anything and everything, right? And that's terrifying, especially if you look at what's out there in the world. So what we do is I, with the way I've trained my AI is I have different projects that sit in the large language model. Each one has a set of rules and taxonomies dictate how it will answer that question or that query or what I want it to spit out. And I feed into it and I'm very specific with the instructions of how I want it to learn. And then once I've, if I, let's say I update something, this is the thing with it, you have to be pretty regimented with it because it won't know what you have done. You have to tell it to unlearn something and then relearn something.

Jessy46:06
Something.

Lia Georgantis46:08
So if you just keep feeding it things, it will still reference every other thing that you've ever fed it. So you do need to be a little bit specific and granular with it, but it just, it doesn't take a lot of time. You just set aside, you know, if you want to update it, or we've got a lot of different training modules. And look, I'm also, because one of the biggest things that I pride myself in with our studio is the humanness of it, the connection. So I want to be very mindful that I'm not creating a completely automated— I've already been accused of being an AI online. Someone thought I was like a cyber robot, but I'm not. But yeah, so if just in terms of business, it can be so useful and so especially if you've got a small team, I don't want to be doing every menial admin thing. I want to work on the business and do the strategies and stuff. And so it can be really, really good.

Jessy47:06
So take—

Marie47:07
do a course.

Lia Georgantis47:09
Literally, there's some really good, good ones out there that will just give you a little bit of background, a little bit of an idea, because if you're not using it, I can tell you now, you will be left behind.

Jessy47:19
Build a trained AI for your specific business.

Talitha47:22
Yes.

Jessy47:22
If you're a small business and you need one.

Marie47:25
Like my husband.

Jessy47:27
He actually works for me.

Talitha47:29
So no, you can't.

Marie47:31
Lucky you. Any other questions? Question.

Jessy47:35
Yes, to all the three of you.

Marie47:41
Um, Leah, before you were talking about the difference between business and brand, I would love to hear from the three of you what your personal perspective is on the difference between brand and business.

Jessy47:58
Me?

Marie47:59
Okay.

Jessy48:01
Um, sorry, what's your brand or business?

Marie48:05
Yeah, with a different—

Jessy48:08
okay, cool.

Marie48:08
So it's just helpful, like, insight.

Jessy48:11
Yeah, totally. Um, I'm just trying to find you an example. Um, I'm gonna go with, like, Pip Edwards from PE Nation, just in the fashion space. So brand, we are speaking to PE, and they're speaking to, like, fabrication a specific drop, tights, etc. Person is Pip. Now she might be the ambassador at this point. She was probably co-founder, so she is—

Talitha48:42
she's the—

Jessy48:42
she's the talent, she's the co-founder, she's speaking to business, but she is also the brand because it's her. But brand is also speaking to like product.

Lia Georgantis48:54
I think the separation is product and brand.

Talitha48:58
Yeah.

Marie48:59
Yes.

Lia Georgantis48:59
So product.

Jessy49:00
So if I'm thinking about who, when I pitch for, from a media perspective, product is the top 10 tights this summer that you should be purchasing, or the top 10 tops. If we're talking about financials, like when she got investment, that is when Pip is talking to brand, but they're leveraging, um, her. She's not talking about product at all. She's speaking to business and how often something might sell or how much investment they may have card, um, and that might be sitting with like an AFR or a news.com. So that is very specific to brand and pip as opposed to Marie Claire where it's very product driven. So in your case, like even from a, um, like TikTok perspective, your content at times may speak to product. This is a cleanser. This is how it works. This is, you know, how often you will use it. Then sometimes you may not even mention, like, if we look at TBH, I would actually say to you, they very rarely put product in their TikTok content. They only talk to brand and the culture and like how much fun they're having. And like, there might be a cleanser sitting in the background, but like, there actually isn't a whole lot of product. It's mainly brand.

Lia Georgantis50:15
So it's not product-driven.

Talitha50:17
And I think—

Lia Georgantis50:18
yeah, go on. No, sorry.

Talitha50:20
Brand is the reason why someone would buy a Porsche over a Ford Telstar.

Lia Georgantis50:26
Yeah.

Talitha50:26
For example, they're both cars. They both have four wheels. They both do exactly the same thing. But the brand equity, it's the— like, it's a high price.

Lia Georgantis50:35
So what I was talking about is the aspiration element.

Marie50:39
Yeah.

Lia Georgantis50:39
The storytelling element, the narrative element.

Talitha50:43
The—

Lia Georgantis50:43
there's a lot of the time brand building exercises. So campaigns that are for brand awareness don't really talk about product. It's a feeling. Brand for me, for Kaya, was always built on a feeling. And rarely did we— I mean, I'm the world's— ask anybody— the world's worst salesperson.

Jessy51:08
I can't sell.

Lia Georgantis51:10
I can't stand in front of a camera and be like, and it's $19.99 and come to our Like I die. It's just not me. But I can sell a feeling. I can tell you how you're going to feel. I can get you excited about doing it. I can sell without talking about the product, a squat, a sit-up, and anything, and I'll get you in that way. That for me is brand. That's all about building my brand, getting, you know, it's not enough to get sales. So there has to be— I don't know what the percentage is. There's especially when you talk about social media, I think there is some sort of formula where it's like 50% this and 30% this and 20% something else. I don't know because I don't do social media.

Jessy51:56
You want to get people to buy into the brand.

Marie52:01
Yes.

Jessy52:02
As opposed to— yes, they're going to purchase.

Lia Georgantis52:04
They want to be an emotional connection to what you are. Yeah, yeah.

Marie52:09
A lot of my clients, there's like a big split between the personal brand and they're building, creating a product, and they want to be the face of their business and they want to build community through themselves to then sell their product.

Jessy52:23
But then I've also got clients that are like strictly product.

Marie52:27
I don't want to be seen, I don't want to be shown, I don't want anything to do with me, I don't want my storey told.

Jessy52:33
And I'm like, it's Well, it's easier to sell a person.

Lia Georgantis52:37
It's easier to sell a person than it is to sell a product.

Jessy52:39
Yeah.

Lia Georgantis52:40
However, you can't— you don't want to do what I did, which was to become my own bottleneck.

Talitha52:47
Yeah.

Lia Georgantis52:47
Where I was the only person that was perceived to be able to deliver that experience. I've now successfully been able to not— that's not me anymore. But there was a time where people would only come and want to do a class with me. Yeah, that is not scalable. At all. So you have to—

Jessy53:05
also, when brands come to me and they don't necessarily have a, uh, front-facing founder as such, uh, what we do do is definitely still speak to brand, like what are the brand ethos, culture that, you know, is instilled in that, as opposed to having like one person. Um, we also in that case sometimes look to a spokesperson. So that might be— it might a, you know, a budget question at that point in time. But when brands say, I don't want to be front-facing, my first question is, that's fine, can we somehow within our strategy speak to ethos, values, culture? Yes, great. And then next step is eventually, can we get an ambassador? And this is when you have an ambassador come on board and be the front-facing person, because people buy people.

Talitha53:55
People.

Jessy53:56
So like, there sometimes needs to be that human connection, um, so that people get the feeling.

Lia Georgantis54:01
Yes.

Jessy54:02
To buy in.

Talitha54:03
So good to know.

Marie54:05
Thank you. Any other question?

Lia Georgantis54:07
Yes.

Marie54:07
Hi guys, well done. Um, Leah, this is more for you, but I guess for everyone.

Jessy54:12
Um, but just because you said it, how do you, how do you go from being the founder to being the CEO? Like, I'm working, but I'm really struggling with being a CEO that I want to pass And I would love to bring someone in to take it over because I just really struggle.

Talitha54:28
Some people—

Lia Georgantis54:29
well, if you can afford it, if it's part of it, then, you know, maybe it is. Not every founder needs to be a CEO. And I think that successful businesses separate the two. I don't particularly want to be the CEO of my business for time immemorial. I'd like to bring somebody that does specialise in that. But it's what I said before. If you if you want to succeed and your budget is that you are the founder and the everything, then go and learn some basic business strategy. Go and do it. You know, you need to be across the finances, you need to be across the systems. I would even almost go and do some sort of like leadership course. So because the biggest thing for me was people, like managing people. That, that was challenging. People are really unpredictable. Um, and obviously nobody, nobody is going to care about your business as much as you do. You can have the best thing on the planet. If people don't have skin in the game, they don't care. You might be lucky and have the random person that does, but if you're 100% business owner, you've put all the money in, you've taken all the risks, someone's is just getting a salary. They're only there until that salary continues to be paid. After that, they're out the door. I can speak from experience and I had a shareholder that was also being paid a salary and I've learned a very expensive, difficult lesson in that. And, um, so go and learn, you know, do a, do a, do a course. There's so many resources out there that You know, you can upskill, but also don't be afraid to make mistakes. I think that's also one of the biggest things we would have made hundreds.

Jessy56:29
I also, and Tilly, I don't know your opinion on this, but for me, when the business got to a point where I was like, I can't handle the, you know, the tax agent emailing me.

Talitha56:40
Yes.

Lia Georgantis56:40
Like, God, please.

Jessy56:43
My name was Whitney and it would just send me, Whitney, please don't. So it would get to a, it got to a point where it it was incredibly stressful when you're trying to do your day. But the business got to a point where it was like I had to appoint somebody to do that because it wasn't also where I was then being my best self for the team, where I actually like enjoyed myself. But there came a point in the business where I was like, someone else has to do this because I can't look at the numbers and I can't— I like, I need to know the numbers, but like not, you know, on zero.

Lia Georgantis57:10
Yeah, that's me still.

Jessy57:12
Like, yeah, you know, so then yeah, I think there's a point in the business where you go, yeah, it needs to be somebody else.

Talitha57:17
Yeah.

Jessy57:17
Um, in the initial stage is definitely do it yourself, learn, and also learn it so that then if you do put someone in that position, you can help lead them.

Talitha57:26
Yeah.

Lia Georgantis57:26
And you can just sit across it. Like, I don't think you should ever just be like, I don't know how to do this, you do it. Yeah. There needs to be a level of visibility. Yeah. But you're so right. I mean, there also, I think, and I don't know about you, Talitha, but there's a control issue as well. I have a massive control issue and that's my ours. Um, I'll do it, don't worry, I'll do it.

Marie57:51
Like, because you always think that you do it better anyway, you know, you do it quicker, you do it better. Delegate, but not necessarily.

Lia Georgantis57:58
I'm not a tax agent, I'm not an accountant. I certainly do not do my numbers better than, you know. So I don't know, what would your experience be?

Talitha58:07
I've got a business coach. Yeah, I— it is expensive, but it has been the best investment for my business. We're currently implementing systems and processes, which makes me want to cry into my water. But we've got— he sat our whole team down and we've got the architecture now. We've got a plan, we've got a system where we're going to put the systems and processes into. And someone who is really analytical and really kind of driven in that sort of thing is going to do it. And I would never have got around to doing that. I now have a, you know, strong financial plan. I can— I had a basic understanding of a P&L, but now he's sat me through that and, you know, really educated me. So and doing that with a lot of aspects of the business. So I highly recommend having someone and he like we battle with each other, you know, he's, he is a, he can be critical and but it's great. You need that.

Marie59:13
Last one question. I think you had one. Yes, I'll be quick. It's a bit of a growth question and brand building distinction question of, of being a founder. I'm starting a, um, high-end fashion brand for, for women, so designed by a woman for women. I'm using, uh, premium fabrics, natural fibers, majority of quotes, um, and I have a decent following on my own account, but the brand is like non-existent from a following perspective. And yes, to grow, I need to hold myself accountable to post every day, but it's so hard. Um, but with the brand, it's like, I obviously want the brand to be its own standalone thing, even though I'm telling the founder story. How do I build the brand page and the growth and get that community going by not having myself in those posts rather than like having the posts on my founder page, on my personal page, and then on the brand page be more brand.

Lia Georgantis1:00:18
I think you can have a bit— you need to have a bit of you on your business page. We have a Kaya Instagram and I have my personal Instagram. Some of the posts that I do are both both. Um, there's a strong visibility of me, but, but it's a bit different because on a service, and I have a lot of members, we make it about them. So there's lots of testimonials and them doing their thing, and, you know, so it's, it's that, that's, um, the kaya. And, and look, it's my, you know, my— I've got 63,000 and Kaya's at 16. It's just a slow— it will People, it's what Jessie said, people connect to people.

Marie1:01:00
Yeah, I think you need to look at fake the label and emulate that.

Jessy1:01:04
Yeah, that's true. She was influencer, she was really smart, she did it all herself. Now she's got a cafe, they've got lip balms. She started as an influencer, she was selling ESMÉ skincare, and then she went, I can do this, and started plus-size clothing for every and she cross collaborates and she cross collaborates between the cafe and her account. And now she's got a podcast. She's very smart.

Lia Georgantis1:01:36
It's the same as Isabel. What's her name? Isabel, who has CSB.

Talitha1:01:39
Yeah.

Jessy1:01:40
Oh, Rachel. Sorry. Rachel has CSB and the Ambassadee.

Lia Georgantis1:01:44
It's Isabel. Yes.

Jessy1:01:45
So what I was going to say, and it kind of links to, um, how Talitha went about like your growth where she took maybe you didn't want to post it on your personal, I'm not really sure. But like then she recognised that these reels that she would post each night with the copy over the top worked. So on your brand page, you're going to have things that obviously work, and that's just test and trial. I would say interlink the two where you obviously can, particularly if it feels like right for the brand. Also, when you get to like launch phase, if you don't want to be present, then start to— and it obviously is going to cost you more, but like look to influencers that can help you to push people to your page, um, again, it's going to be more costly, which is why I'm always like, pro founder, because initially it's, it's, it's a free channel for you and you don't have to make that investment. If you've got that following, why not? And I always like to take this back. I had a brand recently who didn't want to put their name to their business because they were concerned about their old boss. And my question was, you're going to let your old boss hold back your business. So I think ask that question to yourself: why do I not want to, like, cross-pollinate? Because you obviously have this audience, start shifting them across, because if they're interested, they will, and they'll be telling their friends. And just start then listening to what the community likes or is engaged in on your business platform and do that more. Like, to Talitha's point, she does that now every single night because she know it converts, but she only knew that because she tested and tried. So, like, as you start to then get to Fran Bill phase, you'll start to get like immediate responses. Did that convert? If it didn't, great, change tack, move. And don't be afraid that when you've got like a content plan, if one thing works and one thing doesn't, and you've filmed all this like content, ditch it and go with what's working.

Lia Georgantis1:03:36
We A/B test a lot. We'll never just put one meta ad up. So the way that we, uh, the way that I come up with our content is I do what's called long tail searches. We're so small I'll never be able to compete in the group fitness industry. I just, it's too expensive to try and own yoga in Bondi Junction, right? So rather than try and find my way in there, I go, okay, who's my demographic? They are perimenopausal women. What are the problems that they are facing right now? They're not sleeping, they're feeling like shit and this, that, and the other. And so 9 times out of 10, women my age, Amelia, they're not typing. They're not typing into Google, how do I get abs? They're typing, why am I so fucking tired all the time? So that is what I put into my content. It's the answer to their question because I know they're searching that. And that is a way cheaper way for me to get to my audience through solving a problem because they're not going, where's Kaya? They don't even know how to spell Kaya. Like they're going, why am I tired all the time? 'Why can't I sleep?' So I'm like, 'Hey, you having trouble sleeping? Well, haven't I got the thing for you. Come and do it.' You know, I don't even talk about exercise or anything like that. It's getting in the back door and, um, understanding your audience.

Jessy1:05:02
There's also a brand, it's called— sorry, my mind's going wild— um, the Skersey, um, that you should look up. They're a, uh, we used to work with them back in the day. They're a leather luxury handbag brand. She basically started it because she was a PR girly. She couldn't afford the Louis Vuitton or the Chanel, so she created a leather, um, handbag in all different shapes and sizes at about the $500 price point. So it's like not low end, but it's not super high end. But have a look at her content strategy. Um, so find other brands in a very similar market and then emulate that.

Lia Georgantis1:05:35
Yeah.

Jessy1:05:35
And she's a founder and she doesn't have a big profile, but she weaves herself in and then she sometimes posts stuff on her own page. And I think it's a good mix. Mix of, yeah, between the two, like in your face. Yeah, totally. Unfortunately, speaking from someone that is the face of the brand, because I am the Frustrated Nancy, that is why the problem exists. I almost died. I created a business. I am the face of the business. People ask me wild stuff, like I've got pimples on my bum, what brand of underwear should I So, right, unfortunately, if you are a founder, in my opinion, everyone, it becomes you.

Talitha1:06:19
Yeah.

Jessy1:06:19
And person sells the brand and it's like, Kirri, what do you do?

Marie1:06:26
What do you do?

Talitha1:06:27
What do you do?

Marie1:06:28
Kirri, we need more founder ads.

Jessy1:06:30
Kirri, Kirri, Kirri, Kirri, Kirri. But that's what sells. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marie1:06:34
Let's take this conversation offline. We're just a bit over time. So I'm just going to, to conclude. First of all, I would like to thank you ladies for your honesty. Tonight wasn't just about hearing inspiring storeys or inspiring founders. It was about reminding you that every successful brand started with a decision, a decision to try, a decision to keep going when it was hard, a decision to believe in yourself and your ideas. When no one could see it yet. Behind every logo is resilience, courage, and consistency. So I hope tonight that you walk away not just inspired, but ready to take your next bold step and implement strategy tomorrow for your business. I want to thank you, these 3 ladies, so much. Thank you so much. You have been amazing. I want to thank Kirsten and the BOA team for making this happen, and I want to thank Thank you for coming here today. Have a good night.

Jessy1:07:40
Thank you.

Talitha1:07:41
Thank you.